Leaders With Lacqua Goes Green: ReNew CEO Sumant Sinha

[00:02]
On this series of leaders with Blackwater goes green.

[00:04]
We've spoken to key decision makers from sovereign wealth funds to waste

[00:08]
management companies and even leading philanthropists to see how they're

[00:11]
navigating the climate transition. And we finish with an entrepreneur who

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wants to be at the forefront of the clean energy revolution in both his home

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country and across the world. Sumant Sinha is a founder of one of

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India's largest renewable power developers and the first to list on the

[00:28]
Nasdaq. A former banker in New York and London.

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Sinha returned to India and founded the company in 2011, expecting the country

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to experience rapid growth. He says India will become the largest

[00:40]
contributor to global energy demand, requiring even more power than the U.S.

[00:45]
or China. On this episode, we discuss his

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professional journey, the opportunities and challenges from the climate crisis,

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and why he thinks India will have to grow in a unique carbon light way.

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So thank you so much for joining us on Leaders with Black Women.

[01:02]
You have an amazing story. You were a banker.

[01:04]
You happily live in London and then Delhi and you think, actually, I want to

[01:08]
be an entrepreneur and I want to be an entrepreneur or renewables.

[01:12]
Yeah, You know, life doesn't go in straight lines, as you know, right?

[01:15]
So everything sort of leads up to it. And eventually when you look back, it

[01:19]
sort of all makes perfect sense. But when you're going through the

[01:21]
motions, you're sort of just trying to optimize the next decision.

[01:25]
So I was a banker, as you said, in New York, in London for a while.

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But then I wanted to go back to India because I felt that India would

[01:32]
eventually grow, just like China had done.

[01:35]
And so I thought that it would be a good sort of place for me to take forward the

[01:39]
next part of my career. So I went back to India and I joined a

[01:42]
corporate as a CFO, a large business conglomerate, and I worked there for

[01:46]
about six years before I then decided to start on my own.

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And, you know, the desire to be an entrepreneur had always been there.

[01:55]
It was just that I didn't know exactly what I should be doing.

[01:58]
But getting into renewables and working for a renewables company actually gave

[02:04]
me the opportunity to understand the sector.

[02:06]
And as a finance person, it is very important for me to get sectoral

[02:09]
understanding of something at a very early stage, and renewables and climate

[02:14]
change in general ended up being that area.

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So I'm really glad that I got into it because it really opened up doors for

[02:21]
me. Is this India's decade?

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I would say so. I would say so.

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And I think not just in not just a decade, but I think the next 20, 30

[02:29]
years are going to be India's, I think much like the last 20, 30 years were a

[02:34]
period of time when China grew dramatically.

[02:36]
I think it's going to be India's turn or the next 20, 30 years.

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And I think we have all the right ingredients in place right now.

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We've got good, stable political leadership which really wants to make

[02:46]
India a developed country. You know, we've over the last five, ten

[02:50]
years put a lot of building blocks in place on a macroeconomic basis.

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And so I think everything is primed right now to to get India to sort of

[02:59]
really cross over to 70% consistent growth over the next 20 years.

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So there's been a lot of parallels actually between India and China or at

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least drawn into that. China chose at some point to be the

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manufacturer of the world. India did it.

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Do you see parallels between how these economies can develop?

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I you know, I think they're going to be largely different parts because

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obviously the Chinese political system is very different from India's.

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And I think that itself will lead to different outcomes.

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Hopefully India's growth is more sustainable, more long term because of

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of the different pressure, but as we have in our system, but also, therefore,

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everything takes a lot more time to work out because there are many noises that

[03:40]
have to be that have to be addressed and dealt with.

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But I think as in when the the the whole sort of ship starts moving, it moves in

[03:47]
a more sustainable manner. And I think that's hopefully what is

[03:49]
going to happen over the next many years.

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As far as manufacturing is concerned, I don't think that India is going to be a

[03:55]
great manufacturing country of the type that China has become.

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But I think on the other hand, we'll find our own model, you know, will be a

[04:02]
great service. This country will be a great back

[04:04]
office, will be great. Hopefully at some point it will become a

[04:07]
front office as well. And obviously infrastructure development

[04:11]
is going to be a massive opportunity in India as well.

[04:13]
And I think the government is trying to push manufacturing.

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So we may not become the China manufacturing, but we'll certainly

[04:18]
become the plus one to China in manufacturing.

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And so where does renewables fit into all of this?

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I mean, this is, you know, greening a big economy with many citizens and also

[04:29]
finding the right infrastructure in place.

[04:31]
Yeah, look, I think renewables is absolutely critical in India right now

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because and I'll give you some numbers. If you look at where India is today, we

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already have the third largest energy market in the world and our per capita

[04:44]
energy consumption is among the lowest in the world.

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India is now growing at 7 to 8% every year, which means that there is going to

[04:50]
be a massive increase in energy demand in India over the next several decades.

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In fact, we're going to be the largest contributor to global energy demand

[04:58]
compared to any other country. But as the US or even China.

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Now, the question is if we grow like every other country so far as corn,

[05:06]
which is using a fossil fuel intensive mechanism of growth, the amount of

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carbon emissions that will put into the atmosphere are going to be enormous,

[05:13]
which is going to be horrible for everybody in the world, including for

[05:17]
Indians. And therefore we have to follow a

[05:19]
different path. And that path has not been done by has

[05:22]
not been followed by anybody else. So we have to evolve our own unique path

[05:27]
to grow in a carbon light way. And that fundamentally, therefore, will

[05:33]
require a huge amount of more renewable energy capacity.

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And, you know, when you do the numbers and you look at energy growth and you

[05:39]
look at how much renewables has to contribute, you you know, you realize

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that India has to add almost 4 to 5 times the amount of renewable capacity

[05:48]
in the next 20 odd years, as much as the US has from all the power generating

[05:54]
sources today. So the US, for example, has about a.

[05:58]
Gigawatt of power generating capacity. We introduce bills have to add about 45

[06:02]
gigawatts in the next 20, 25, five, 45,000 gigawatts and the next 20 to 25

[06:07]
years. So I mean, the investment required is

[06:10]
going to be enormous. The effort to get this done is going to

[06:13]
be massive. But eventually that's the only path that

[06:16]
exists for both India and for the world. But India also wants to be energy

[06:19]
independent. And so does that mean that there will be

[06:22]
a continuous use of coal to make up for, you know, energy when renewables are

[06:28]
slower, but also in the transition period?

[06:29]
Yeah. Yeah.

[06:30]
You know, I think it's an important issue that you raised as he India's

[06:35]
growth of energy demand is such that we cannot in the short term meet all of

[06:40]
that through renewable, renewable energy, irrespective of how hard we are

[06:43]
pushing growth right now. So some part of the balance will have to

[06:46]
be made by coal for the near-term. But I think by 2035 or so, I think we

[06:51]
reach a level of renewables addition. We won't actually need coal and we can

[06:55]
then start replacing coal. So by 2045, by 2050, will, you know,

[07:00]
coal would have gone down substantially and renewables will form the large part

[07:04]
of the grid and maybe nuclear and hydro and so on.

[07:07]
So I think give us a little bit of time and we'll get to a point where our

[07:11]
energy system will be fundamentally driven by clean energy.

[07:16]
And that will also, by the way, have a massive benefit for India because it'll

[07:20]
decrease our dependence on imports of fossil fuels.

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Today, India pays almost $200 billion every year for imported fossil fuels,

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which is a big Achilles heel of India's economy.

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Now, all of that will get addressed, and I think the government recognizes that.

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And Prime Minister Modi has been pushing forward the whole issue of energy

[07:36]
independence through renewables very substantially.

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So so might you start you in 2011? I imagine there are many ups and downs.

[07:43]
First of all, was how difficult was it to convince that the future for, you

[07:48]
know, Indian energy was green? You know, when you start a business, any

[07:54]
business, I would imagine, you know, in the beginning phase, you're not really

[07:58]
thinking about what's going to happen to you 50 years later.

[08:00]
You're thinking about what might happen to you 15 days later.

[08:03]
And so the challenges are very immediate.

[08:05]
And so when I started, my intention was to just set up a, you know, a reasonable

[08:09]
business and and then grow it depending on how things would evolve.

[08:13]
So I would say for the first two, three years, we were just looking to try to

[08:17]
prove the fact that as a company we could actually get projects executed,

[08:21]
that we could raise capital for it and those kinds of things.

[08:25]
It's only subsequently after we got to a certain size three or four years into

[08:29]
our journey that I really started sort of putting my head over water and

[08:32]
looking at the future. And and at that time, the futures

[08:36]
started seeming a lot brighter than what I had, you know, been able to anticipate

[08:41]
until that time. And I think then in 2014 was a bit of a

[08:44]
turning point in India, because that's when this government came in and Prime

[08:48]
Minister Modi came in. And I think he totally changed the

[08:51]
entire thinking around climate change in India and went from a defensive posture

[08:55]
to a much more, I think, open, positive view on how to deal with climate change

[09:00]
and to totally size the targets on renewables.

[09:03]
And that's really what has allowed us to grow substantially.

[09:07]
Coming up, some unseen reveals what he believes is the simplest thing the world

[09:12]
could do to combat the climate crisis.

[09:22]
The clean energy developer Renew has been recognised for its decarbonisation

[09:27]
efforts and sustainable portfolio across solar, wind and hydro.

[09:33]
Company founder Suman Sinha says progress is being made on the green

[09:36]
transition, but a host of challenges remain across governments, corporations

[09:41]
and the mindset of consumers. He tells me about the challenges facing

[09:45]
his industry and how people often choose a cheaper option, even if it's the wrong

[09:50]
thing for the planet.

[09:56]
If I get started on climate change, I think there are so many issues that we

[09:59]
still have to deal with that are not really getting addressed the way they

[10:02]
should and which is. So first of all, you know, the entire

[10:07]
process is you know, is talking about commitments by various countries.

[10:11]
And those commitments at this point don't add up to the 1.5 degrees

[10:14]
centigrade temperature change that all of us are trying to get to.

[10:17]
In fact, I would say that 1.5 degrees is already well behind us.

[10:21]
We now have to try to keep the temperature change down to two degrees

[10:24]
or two and a half degrees. But currently, all the commitments of

[10:27]
the world, if you add them all up, take us to between two and a half and three

[10:29]
degrees centigrade temperature change. And these are just commitments.

[10:34]
Action is at a whole different level, which is much, much weaker or better.

[10:38]
So it is it is it is a lot lower than what people are committing right now.

[10:43]
I don't think any country is really on track to meet their Paris commitments,

[10:49]
on their on their NDCs. So, in fact, therefore, you know,

[10:53]
commitments are not adequate. Action is even less adequate than that.

[10:58]
And so we're actually falling behind quite substantially.

[11:02]
And then you look at the corporate sector, you know, in the corporate

[11:06]
sector and corporates, but we account for two thirds of carbon emissions

[11:09]
globally. Some corporates are voluntarily doing

[11:13]
what needs to be done. But most corporates with the, you know,

[11:16]
are not doing what needs to be done. And there isn't a proper system globally

[11:20]
that really measures how much carbon is being put out by anybody at this point

[11:24]
in time. Right.

[11:25]
And you can't measure it. There's not a problem.

[11:28]
That's exactly that's the problem. Just like just like every food product

[11:32]
specifies on its packaging that this is the amount of calories this part of the

[11:36]
thing has or fat or whatever else. We need to have almost the same

[11:39]
definition of carbon that this product that is used, whether is a service or

[11:44]
actual product consumed or produced this much carbon.

[11:47]
Right. And then we should all be able to, as

[11:48]
consumers, be able to start moving towards a carbon free product.

[11:53]
Why? What I mean, it seems like we're taking,

[11:54]
if not a step back, certainly you say we're not going to meet the targets that

[11:59]
we've set out. Is it distraction because of other

[12:02]
global risks or is it just not the right kind of power because we don't have the

[12:07]
technology or the carbon capture? I think fundamentally it's human nature.

[12:12]
You know, people don't want to do things that cost them more, even though they

[12:16]
might be the right things to do. And corporates are not set up in a way

[12:21]
to do the right thing. They are, you know, set up to deliver

[12:24]
more value to their shareholders. And so if you ask them to do something

[12:28]
that costs more but does the right thing, most people are going to choose

[12:32]
the thing that costs them less because, you know, ultimately it's our pocket

[12:36]
that drives our lives. And so therefore, unless we start making

[12:41]
the use of carbon more expensive and we start making transparent what different,

[12:46]
you know, what different products are emitting in terms of carbon, until we

[12:49]
start doing that, I don't really think that customers are going to be aware

[12:53]
enough and corporates are going to be aware enough to really start moving

[12:56]
carbon usage down. And one of the most simple things that

[13:00]
the world needs to do, I tell you, I say simple, but it's actually one of the

[13:02]
most complex things, is that we need to have a single price of carbon globally.

[13:07]
And if you can say that for years, I know and it's a very complex thing to

[13:10]
do, but the reality is that there isn't really enough sufficient political

[13:13]
backing behind it. You know, nobody really wants to do it

[13:16]
because they all know that it's going to make everything more expensive because

[13:20]
right now we're just all used to using carbon and just putting it into the

[13:23]
atmosphere. The moment start that starts getting

[13:25]
costed and everybody's cost is going to go up and in the end of inflation and

[13:30]
political disturbance and, and when everything you know politically is so

[13:34]
finely balanced, nobody wants to be the person who takes that call.

[13:37]
Unfortunately, there are many, many questions actually, what the energy

[13:40]
complex looks like for renewables. There's, you know, many question marks

[13:43]
about wind turbines that are not really working.

[13:45]
Hydrogen, is it the brown kind? Is it actually, you know, the blue or

[13:50]
the green kind? How do you see the energy complex and is

[13:53]
it really different region from region? You know, right now, I think if you look

[13:58]
at energy as a whole, 25% of energy carbon emissions comes from electricity

[14:03]
for electricity. We know what the solution is.

[14:05]
We need to really just decarbonize using clean energy.

[14:09]
The technology is there. Nuclear?

[14:12]
No, it's mostly wind and solar. It could be nuclear.

[14:14]
Nuclear is a little bit more expensive, but it does give you that baseload

[14:17]
power. So we know that we need to, you know,

[14:21]
implement wind and solar at massive scale.

[14:24]
Now, the reason we're not able to do that is because grids have not developed

[14:28]
as fast as they should. Local permitting issues are not as

[14:31]
clear. Supply chains are very concentrated, so

[14:33]
we need diversification of supply chain. So there are quite a few issues that

[14:37]
need to be addressed in a basically decarbonising the electricity part, but

[14:42]
that's just 25% of carbon emissions. Then on top of that, you have the rest

[14:46]
of the energy value chain, which is really to be addressed to things like

[14:50]
green hydrogen and green ammonia. And we.

[14:54]
Have to find different use cases. Keep the following in mind.

[14:57]
We have a fossil fuel based economy that has been developed over the last 200

[15:02]
years globally. Right?

[15:03]
Everything in our lives is based on fossil fuels.

[15:06]
Now we are trying to fundamentally reshape and retrain and change all of

[15:09]
that. And that's going to require a massive,

[15:11]
massive overhaul of all the products that we use, how we use them, you know,

[15:15]
how our minds are wired. You know, today, a young person, a young

[15:19]
you know, you know, 18 is going to think about

[15:23]
getting on a motorcycle and and driving it hard or driving a driving a sports

[15:27]
car, you know, which makes a lot of noise.

[15:30]
You know, all of that has to change. There are cultural changes that need to

[15:33]
happen. I guess there are so many questions

[15:34]
about how you recycle, for example, solar panels, battery.

[15:37]
Is that are these the wrong conversations?

[15:40]
Because you hear that a lot by people who are not necessarily climate deniers,

[15:43]
but just think it's the transition is too expensive and this is consumers on

[15:47]
the street. Yeah, no, look, I think we have to to

[15:50]
address this problem that we have to follow in all of the all of the above

[15:52]
strategy. There's there's no there's no other way

[15:55]
around it. We can't you know, if we just look at

[15:58]
the amount of new minerals and metals we have to mine to make this transition

[16:03]
happen. It's massive, right?

[16:04]
And so if everything has to be mined from scratch, it's going to take too

[16:08]
much effort. So therefore, recycling becomes an

[16:10]
important part of that solution. So I think all of those are things that

[16:13]
we absolutely need to do as well. And so we need new technologies.

[16:18]
We need new recycling systems to be set up.

[16:21]
You know, we need we need fast an infrastructure development on grids and

[16:25]
so on. We need faster permitting.

[16:27]
So there's a whole range of things that need to be addressed for this for this

[16:31]
change to happen. Coming up, Suhasini tells me why success

[16:36]
as an entrepreneur is a lot harder than he thought.

[16:47]
India's Clean Power producer Renew, listed on the Nasdaq in 2021, a key

[16:52]
milestone in the career of company founder Swansea.

[16:56]
He tells me about his professional during the lessons he's learned by

[16:59]
setting up a company and why the building of an organisation never stops.

[17:08]
Was it harder being an entrepreneur than you thought it would be?

[17:12]
It was a lot harder. And and the kind of

[17:16]
things that you have to take responsibility for, you know, as a

[17:19]
profession, it's a little bit different. But here the buck stops with you in

[17:23]
every different way. Right.

[17:24]
And especially if it is capital or if you get listed, you know, you have many,

[17:30]
many stakeholders to manage. And so there's a lot of complexity to

[17:33]
deal with at any given point in time. And you know that if you don't drive

[17:37]
things forward, then perhaps they won't go as well as they might otherwise.

[17:41]
And so therefore, that imposes a much higher degree of responsibility and

[17:45]
burden, which over the years becomes easier to deal with, I guess.

[17:49]
But it's always there. And, you know, as running your own

[17:52]
company, that stress does not go away at any time.

[17:54]
You know, you are you're sort of switched on 24 seven.

[17:57]
And, you know, whether it's night or day or maybe on holiday or anything else

[18:02]
really doesn't matter because, you know, you are at the beck and call of your

[18:05]
business. Is that different because you're a

[18:07]
founder and so you're you're always looking around, you know, you always

[18:11]
have this image of founders as being, if not scrappy, always kind of like on the

[18:15]
go because it's their baby. That is true.

[18:18]
I that I think certainly is the issue. As a founder, you do have an extra sense

[18:23]
of responsibility. And I know at some point I'm going to

[18:26]
have to hand things over. And you want to be very careful about

[18:29]
when you do that, how you do that and so on.

[18:31]
But hopefully that's still some time away.

[18:34]
But I do agree with you that as a founder, you do think that it's your

[18:38]
baby and and therefore you do want to make sure that, you know, you look after

[18:44]
the baby in the right way. And until the baby gets to a level where

[18:46]
it can walk and move on its own. But, you know, as a parent, you never

[18:50]
think that your child is or enough to do that.

[18:52]
So I guess that happens. So what is the most valuable lesson that

[18:56]
you've learnt as an entrepreneur? That's a great question.

[19:01]
You know, if I think back, I would say that

[19:04]
the most important thing that I, you know, I sort of realized is that, you

[19:10]
know, where you get to is really an outcome of the effort that you put in.

[19:15]
And therefore, you have to constantly keep putting in the effort.

[19:18]
You know, the moment you take a step back, everything automatically slows

[19:22]
down a little bit. So you have to be switched on all the

[19:24]
time. You have to be pushing hard all the

[19:26]
time. And you cannot actually ever relax on

[19:29]
that front. I know you were talking about, you know,

[19:32]
execution now being the most important thing, how that, I imagine, means

[19:36]
building the team around you, the best team that you can find.

[19:39]
How do you do that? Yeah, I think, look, getting the right

[19:43]
people and keeping them engaged is one of the hardest challenges that you can

[19:49]
face as a as a founder. And I've been fortunate that we've got a

[19:53]
really good team with us, a team that has been with me for quite, quite a long

[19:57]
time. And and that's made my life a little bit

[20:00]
easier. And it's also created a sense of

[20:02]
camaraderie, which is so important because, you know, you spend all your

[20:05]
time with the people around you. So it's very important to have that.

[20:10]
But I think it's it's it's something that you have to think about every

[20:13]
single day as a as a leader of of a company, you know, And it's not just a

[20:18]
question of the people that you have. It's a question of the kinds of systems

[20:21]
you have to to keep them motivated and engaged, to evaluate the performance, to

[20:26]
give them feedback about how to improve, how to prevent attrition, especially in

[20:30]
a sector that is growing so rapidly where you are the incumbent in a sense.

[20:33]
So everybody wants to come and take your people away from you.

[20:36]
And so how do you prevent that from happening and yet keep the, you know,

[20:39]
keep the ship going to all of those are very important challenges.

[20:43]
And I think one of the very critical things is that a lot of young

[20:47]
entrepreneurs don't realise is that when you start as an entrepreneur, you're not

[20:52]
just building your business, which of course you are, but you also building

[20:55]
your organisation. And most people don't realise that.

[20:58]
And building an organisation is not just about hiring people, it's about the

[21:02]
culture, it's about the systems, the values, the mission.

[21:06]
You know, it's about how you operate, how you do things, how you retain

[21:09]
people, how you keep them motivated. So it's all of those things put together

[21:15]
and over time you realise that, you know, a lot of effort has to go into it

[21:20]
and then eventually you have an organisation that has a life of its own.

[21:24]
It's, you know, and it's, it's sometimes you look at it and you marvel and you

[21:28]
think about, you know, how was this created and was I the person that was

[21:32]
behind getting this thing done? And you're not obviously the only person

[21:36]
because there's so many other people along with you, but it's an entity by

[21:40]
itself. It's a it's an almost a living,

[21:42]
breathing, dynamic organisation. What's the hardest part in actually

[21:46]
looking at culture when you start out because you have a million things that

[21:49]
you're thinking about, or is it when the company becomes much bigger?

[21:52]
No, I think you have to put in culture that in the beginning I think it's very,

[21:55]
very important because, you know, as you as as more people come in, they all come

[22:01]
in with their different backgrounds and thought processes and you want to mould

[22:04]
them into the kind of. Vision you have for the organization and

[22:09]
the culture of the organization. You want things to be done in a certain

[22:13]
way. You want a certain level of operating

[22:18]
protocols within the organization. So all of those are things that you have

[22:21]
to put in place right in the beginning. But, you know, the building of the

[22:24]
organization is a constant endeavor. It never goes away.

[22:28]
And, you know, you're always saying, well, why don't I do this earlier?

[22:31]
You know, why did I am I doing this now? Why did I not do this five years ago?

[22:35]
So there's always these little things that you're discovering about how to

[22:38]
build the organization, the areas that you want to work on.

[22:40]
And all of that is really fascinating. And, you know, it's it's a that in

[22:44]
itself is a journey, actually. What's the best piece of advice you've

[22:47]
ever received? Oh, good question.

[22:52]
I think, you know, my wife gives me a lot of advice.

[22:54]
A lot of it is very useful. I think the best advice I've just got is

[22:59]
just to focus on what I'm doing and not to get distracted by what's happening

[23:03]
around you. Just to keep your head down and keep

[23:07]
just keep at it. Is that the same advice you give your

[23:09]
children? Good question.

[23:13]
I give them a lot of advice. I don't think that they necessarily take

[23:17]
it all the time as young people have wanted to do.

[23:21]
I think that, you know, my my advice to my kids is to find their own path.

[23:26]
I think that's the most important thing. They need to find their own direction.

[23:29]
They need to do things that excite them and motivate them.

[23:32]
And as a parent, the tendency always ends up, you know, being that you want

[23:37]
to direct them a little bit more than you that they want.

[23:40]
And so the best thing you can do as a parent is to just give them the right

[23:44]
foundations, the right sets of values, and then let them go.

[23:47]
And to have the confidence that you have done your job, which allows them then to

[23:51]
lead their own lives in the best possible bit.

[23:54]
So thank you so much for joining us on Leaders.

[23:56]
Thank you. Thank you so much.

POST-COP29: THE KEY FORCES SHAPING THE FUTURE OF CLIMATE ACTION

ReNew Energy Global Plc announces receipt of non-binding proposal from Masdar, CPP Investments, ADIA and Sumant Sinha and establishment of a Special Committee

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POST-COP29: THE KEY FORCES SHAPING THE FUTURE OF CLIMATE ACTION

ReNew Energy Global Plc announces receipt of non-binding proposal from Masdar, CPP Investments, ADIA and Sumant Sinha and establishment of a Special Committee

Leaders With Lacqua Goes Green: ReNew CEO Sumant Sinha

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